The crudity of some of Hillary's statements during Pakistan visit show that USA is very lucky that she lost the presidential elections. Not so lucky that she is the secretary of State. She is also lucky that nobody asked her the period from 1989 to 2001 when the AL-Qaida that was propped up by the USA was left unhindered to grow and USA left them to build up the strength. Her husband was the President in that period as well, what did he do to take action against the Al-Qaida leadership? How many Al-Qaida members has USA captured since 2001 from Afghanistan? Why did USA move its forces from Afghanistan and concentrated in Iraq on fudged up CIA information in 2003 and left Afghanistan so that Al-Qaida could run to Pakistan?

So if you compare a poor country like Pakistan has done better arrested or killed 70 AL-Qaida members since 2001. Pakistan is fighting a proactive war and has lost 4,400 citizens more than USA lost in 9/11. Moreover are AL-Qaida members sitting in one place so that they may be caught easily. And USA has killed 600 civilians so if USA knows about these terrorists why do not they kill them by this illegal method as they do it regularly and have no compulsions because of powerless UN and a dependent poor country like Pakistan that has no options.

These statements help divert attention from the main issue the failure of NATO inaction as the whole of Afghanistan has become a safe heaven. Its easy to blame other countries for the failure of leadership and bad decisions that US Presidents have taken over the years.

Pakistan does not sermons from Western media who have never lived under the present circumstances in a country that has been torn apart becasue of USA's major mistakes.

One thing for sure, Madame Sec HRC earned her pay on the recent Land of the Pure Tour!


Anti Americanism in Pakistan has been explained several times over the years since 911:
Strategic Depth: Since Pakistan (for whatever reason) is fearful of Mommy India, Pak Strat Cats dreamed up the concept of Afghanistan as being their Alamo. On the great day things escalate (conventionally) out of control with India - PAK Army will be able to go with the flow of an irresistible Indian blitz, fall back into Afghanistan, regroup and launch a counter blitz that will put paid to wicked polytheistic India once and for all.

Strat Depth helps explain why Taliban run Afghanistan was essentially a Pakistani creation for control and management, an ally of sorts and a kindred spirit. Thus, deposing Taliban -- not to mention marginalizing or killing them is queering the mix on PAK Army's Grand Strategy.

Nat'l Sovereignty: As one of several places created after WWII, Pakistan seems kinda schizo -paranoidic about nat'l sovereignty (except for the aforementioned double Durand Lining Talibani tribes, cliches and soirees -- oh, those cats seem able to come and go as they please).

The latest insulting affront to Pakistan sovereignty (real or imagined) are those judge free, jury free, extradition free yet execution stocked "Drones Gone Wild!"

"This isn't our war - it's your war and we are doing the bleeding and the dying" or something to that effect seems to be the gripe de jour.

HRC could have pointed out that Great Satan wanted to do snatch and grabs on actionable intell and PAK Army refused -- alledgedly even firing on especial hunter/killer teams.

So, the predator/reaper strikes are the result of refusing righteous booty to Great Satan.

Since January, more innocents have been killed by terroristic chicanery coming out of those magical UnAdministered Tribal Areas than all the Drones Gone Wild! strikes in world history combined.

Madame Sec HRC did spell out some serious jank for Pakistan - and here are the hits:

“I find it hard to believe that nobody in your government knows where they are, and couldn’t get to them if they really wanted to. Maybe that’s the case; maybe they’re not gettable. I don’t know.”
“Slowly, but insidiously, you are losing territory. If you want to see your territory shrink, that’s your choice. But I don’t think that’s the right choice.”

“If we are going to have a mature partnership where we work together then there are issues that not just the United States but others have with your government and with your military security establishment”.

Since 911, any problems Pakistan has with Great Satan seems to say way more about Pakistan's failures as a modern nation state than any failures of Great Satan or any phantastical fanciful conspiracy of the week.

While Pakistan (with a literacy rate of less than 50%) certainly has issues it may be well for certain elements in Pakistan to bear a few things in mind:

Land of the Pure's largest foreign aid donor is not too concerned with religious fatwas or opinions, feelings or thoughts of ineffective militaries that cannot control their own borders, that do fiddle about with terrorist sympathizers, enablers and recruits or fail to maintain their state's monopoly on violence.

Instead, perhaps - Land of the Pure should carefully consider what the opinions, feelings and thoughts of Great Satan are.

Blaming U.S & India for all the problems faced by Pakistan is lynchpin policy of Pakistan's religious parties and majority of media. Why don't they blame their own military dictator Zia Ul-Haq, who turned Pakistan in to more more Islamic state than even Saudi Arabia? Or for that matter their Intelligence agency, which adapted terror as state policy? In fact, Pakistan should blame its soulmate Saudi Arabia, which has created the biggest trouble for Pakistan by donating millions of petro-dollars for establishing thousands of Madressas, which preach hatred & violence under the extreme brand of Wahabism.

At least some commentators are now able to speak out. The US Secretary of State spoke down on the Pakistanis. There deems to be no consideration of the fact that pakistan is a sovereign nation with her own self-interests just like any nation.
Yes terrorism is a global problem, but for the part, it seems to have stemmed from US attempts to direct nations to serve US interests only. This has created a serious disconnect with a significant percentage of the people in those countries.
Pakistani Taleban were mistly against the local autocratic and corrupt rulers they have had, particularly from General Musharraf on. All those rulers seem to enjoy unalloyed US support and yett the same US wants to preach democracy. This seem to be the bane of US foreign policy in many non EU countries.

our leaders when they entertain grand ambitions of great power, they commit all sins and they visit on our citizens. There is no enmity between people of Pakistan and India. They should get together over their leaders and sort out and compel their leaders to behave. Our colonial experience should tell us we should not trust any outsider between us. They only grind us for their own interests. At the present stage of our economic development, we cannot afford the game of the big powers.

>>>Yes terrorism is a global problem, but for the part, it seems to have stemmed from US attempts to direct nations to serve US interests only. ...
Pakistani Taleban were mistly against the local autocratic and corrupt rulers they have had, particularly from General Musharraf on

Terrorism is basically a tactic used in advancement of a strategic goal. Most instances of the use of terrorism for specific goals have nothing to do with the US.

For example, for Tamil Tigers, the goal was clear : a separate state. For Al Qaeda, the goal is clear : creating local Islamist governments, and working towards a global Islamic caliphate. For Afghan Taliban, we have continuous arguments about whether their goals are nationalistic or Islamist, but its probably a mixture of both.

For Pakistani Taliban, I think it's purely Islamist. These are Punjabis fighting other Punjabis, there is no nationalist angle here. Certainly they're not trying to "liberate" their country from autocratic rules, they just want to become the autocratic rulers. In contrast, the lawyers' agitation in Pak could be said to be about establishing democracy.

Hillary Clinton was right to use the old sticks and carrots approach to the problems plaguing Pakistan and Afghanistan and particulary Pakistan the GRAND CENTRAL STATION of JIHADIS. We can blame Reagan, Zia and the successive Pakistani governments that followed Zia's rule for their shortsighted and self serving policies implemented back in the 80's to fight the Big Bad Russian Bear and for allowing Peshawar to become the hub of terrorists. Pakistan allowed its country to become a center for Wahhabi indoctrination and we can clearly see their evil being unleashed in the so called chaste state, but it is more like a dirty Infidelistan.

Hillary's comments were, in fact, appreciated by some Pakistanis who, although they did not agree with Obama's Af-Pak warmongering policies that have made Bush II look green with envy, nevertheless were intelligent enough to agree that Hillary Clinton, unlike her mealymouthed, robotically deceptive Secretaries before her 'calls an ace an ace and a spade a spade'!

It is a fact that Hillary did, according to Asian reports, earn their respect (friends and foes alike) for "speaking the truth about [her president's] policies, not sugar-coating..." even if she did not quite earn the undying love of all the Pakistani students and dignitaries. How can Obama's disastrous Af-Pak policies be hidden from these people by high-flown rhetoric, anyway, pray tell? They're suffering with the catastrophic reality that is their everyday lot every day. On the other hand, if one were to have read more widely the Asian reports, they did indicate that HIllary Clinton's comments were far more in tune with reality than what was expected from an Obama administration top diplomat!...

They're getting pretty fed up with mealymouthed rhetoric that proves of no benefit except to justify the salaries of those who write their epitaphs daily at the Bush Term II White House communications team....

It is really funny to read comical comments from Indian hiding behind American bushes. Why Indians always write brainless comments without any analysis of the situation. I feel you are very curl and insensitive people. You are really turning a lot of friends in Pakistan speechless. I strongly believe only some fanatics from India write against Pakistan with so this intensity. I started to wonder why those comments always come from Hindus names? Any article on Pakistan either positive or negative always attracts dozens of anti-Pakistan and anti_Pakistanis emails from Indians with Hindu names. A lot of peace loving Pakistanis are losing hope of peace with India when they read those mindless comments.
Get some life our Hindus friends. It is just politics.

I had a good laugh with Ratee's "Hillary's goof up" comment above. Not so much stemming from the accuracy of her/his statement but more from her lack of understanding of American policy-making.

It is not the Secretary of State who sets policy. If there's any "goof-up", take it to the President of the United States. His name is Barack Hussein Obama. He is responsible for setting policy and the Af-Pak War is *his* baby. His Secretary of State merely delivers such policy. Clinton did not at any time during her visit seem condescending nor did she engage in "crudity". Her statements were matter-of-fact and to the point. With no, may I add, teleprompter being used!

Although I do not agree with Obama's Af-Pak strategy that has created 3.5 million refugees and 1600 civilians dead and hundreds of kids crippled by drones in the last few months, it is his policy and during the Campaign, it was a promise that he's kept. In fact, about the only promise that he kept with vengeance. Then Senator Hillary Clinton and even Sen. John McCain never did indicate, at any time, in their presidential campaigns that it was indeed their policy to continue the Iraq war on Afganistan soil!

It took Mr. George W. over four years to create a disaster with 5.5 million refugees in Iraq--a million of them women who had worked as teachers, doctors, bureaucrats in the Baathist party now working as "club entertainers" in Jordan and Syria to feed their orphans. This is the great continuing, alas, 'humanitarian development' legacy with the new Bush Term III--the Obama Af-Pak War. Both Bush and Obama seem blatantly determined to make prostitution a valid career choice for refugee muslim women in Iraq and now Afganistan and Pakistan. Meantime, Americans will argue about the cost of Universal Health Care while spending $2 billion per month "renting" the Pakistani army, $850 billion combined War budget, and a billion dollars for a brand new Islamabad fortress-base-embassy with golf parks, sexy bars and perks galore for all its 'guests'!

but hardly for the reasons you've stated.

US Aid is keeping the Pakistan afloat - but thats only because the millions and millions of dollars spent so far in Pakistan have gone into piling up nuclear weapons and missiles directed at India. Not to mention their notorious spy agency's complicit support of militants to create havoc across the border. Meanwhile, the development of the country has completely stalled, the country has become a hotbed of terrorism and women's rights and human rights have fallen by the way side. Yup, helluva policy that.

"Pakistan has paid enormous costs..." ummm...is that claim based on some actual research? Perhaps you missed WaPo's story on the offensive? - "In the past week, refugees said, their doubts about the offensive have intensified because they have seen little evidence of the ground operation that Pakistan's military says has killed nearly 200 insurgents. Although many said shells and bombs had been raining on the hilly terrain all week, some hitting houses of civilians, none said they had seen government soldiers in the area."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/27/AR2009102702065.html

What's really screwy about this is not that Hillary dared question sacred cows in Pakistan on their actual commitment to pushing back against militants - it's the fact that the chickens have finally come home to roost. This country willingly gave up large swaths of its territory to militants and now is attempting to take it back - not because they want to - but because the US is forcing them to. Meanwhile, they jealously guard the LOC with India...a country they have little to fear from. Doesn’t that strike you as super screwy??

Is this so difficult to understand Mr. Butt? Is it so difficult to acknowledge the stupidity of Pakistan's long-held policy of developing their military and trying to undermine their neighbor for so long, while completely neglecting their own country in the meantime? Is it so difficult to understand that its stupid to keep your eyes on the neighbor's house...and perhaps even try and set fire to it...when you're own house is burning down?

I am no supporter of drone attacks - that is a terrible US policy that is threatening to destroy that region even further. Its indiscriminate use is absolutely abominable.

But I simply fail to see why scholars such as yourself continue to have such a blinkered view of the conflict in Pakistan. I originate from India, so perhaps my views are biased. But you dont need Norway's neutrality to know that Pakistan’s official policy has grossly violated all parties involved – that of its own citizens, its neighbors and its protector. How can you, with a straight face and on FP no less, blame Clinton for demanding more out of Pakistan?

Do you understand what a terrible state the Pakistani political and military leaders have left their country in? They've supported a policy that has helped kill thousands in India over the years with their terrorists - from Kashmir to Punjab to Mumbai. They've spent millions on their military needs while grossly neglecting their own economy and the needs of their people. They've harbored militants and terrorists for so long amongst their midst that it’s become difficult to root them out today. They’ve let these militants take over parts of their territory and subjugate their people. Today, the bombs are not falling because of some foreign country or organization – they’re falling because the snakes that they’ve bred to hurt their neighbor are now finally biting…..them.

How can you glibly talk about a screwy relationship and question Clinton’s remarks with these facts? I appreciate different viewpoints…but this has to be the most obviously uninformed one that I’ve ever read.

In his own words "I originate from India, so perhaps my views are biased".
Tell me a single problem that Pakisan is facing and India is not facing? Terrorism, relgious fanatics, corruption, minority rights, women rights, poverty, lack of education. Should I keep going. You Hindus better straight your own house bedore attacking others. It is really shame to be known as Indians in west since Americans have very low opinion of Indians.

In addition to an eloquent response from aara81, pl allow me to add my thoughts.

Pakistan & India and every country on this planet is dealing with some problem or other. No one country is completely bad or completely good. Afterall, a country is her people. People are same everywhere, some are good & some are bad or misdirected. The difference between India and Pakistan is how both have gone about addressing their problems.

India has built a superior education system & culture, not a perfect one, but one that values education and hardwork over religious fanaticism. Using this education system, India is in the process of converting its biggest liability, large population , into one of its biggest asset. This education driven meritocracy still struggles with corrupt political system in India. India is prospering not because of its corrupt political system, but despite of it. Manufacturing, IT, Pharma, Automotive Industries are examples of how this education system is driving India's growth world wide.

So yes, India has same problems as Pakistan. But dear no_idol, every single indicator of performance is going to shine light on this one single truth.... Religion alone can not be a reason for a country's existence and prosperity. A culture that values education and hard work will. Now can you please share your thoughts on when that will be the case in Pakistan?

Londonstani is a correspondent for the CNAS blog "abu muqawwama" and has been sending in some great reports from Pakistan>
His latest is at:

http://www.cnas.org/blogs/abumuqawam....html#comments

My comment on it was: Great Job!
I would only add one more thing: Your psychoanalysis of the "common man's" confusions may be correct, but dont underestimate the layer of confusion ADDED ON by army psyops to whatever was inevitable and expected in ANY human society.

The army has been running the country in one form or the other since 1953, they have a lot of leverage in the media (much of it unrecognizable to the casual observer). They have a particular interest in trying to project foreigners/Indians/CIA/Jews as the cause of all our troubles. And that interest may not even be primarily ideological (meaning it may not be because the army is all jihadi). Some of the motivation may be more pragmatic: The army high command may be willing to change course on the jihadi issue and even kill its own creations but they are NOT willing to sit back and let bloody civilians run the country as they see fit. If they accept responsibility for this mess it wont take long for ordinary people to realize that the "corrupt civilians" have done much less damage to the country than the super-efficient smartly dressed military patriots, which means the bloody civilians may be giving orders to generals one day.....
I know this sounds too conspiratorial (maybe it is, maybe some bloody civilians have been blaming the army so long, they cannot think any other way), but I suspect that the high command is pretty shrewd when it comes to their interests in the power game. Bottom line: if the army wanted, it could actually demonize these talibans and terrorists much more. The problem is, they want them demonized, but not to the point where people start asking questions about "strategic depth"....Of course, they may actually believe their own propaganda. Its very easy to believe what is in the interest of your pocketbook..